Design Details: Floating Roofs

"Amoore100" (amoore100) 09/21/2017 at 19:54 • Filed to: Design Details, Citroen, Nissan, floating roof

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It’s been about six months since we’ve looked at some Design Details and, as I’m a bit burned out from Uni at the moment, I’ve decided it’s high time to look at some again.

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Today, in light of the XC40's official release, we’re looking at a rather marked trend in recent automotive styling—the “floating roof”, or the idea that painting a C/D pillar (or more) black is somehow aesthetically pleasing. Now, the XC40 is far from a perfect example of this as its color schemes are entirely selectable options and the “floating roof” isn’t thoroughly embedded in the car’s design language, but that’s not the case for most interpretations of this styling cue. Take Nissan, for instance.

The Maxima is possibly my least favorite “floating roof” out there; it really loses the plot of blending the side beltline into the rear windscreen and instead goes for a black plastic strip that is poorly integrated and better removed—a shame, as the Maxima is quite attractive otherwise.

On the other hand, Citroen has nailed it with the DS3—a lovely, well integrated alternative color roof panel with a very distinctive “shark fin” pseudo-pillar to accentuate the door panel and help resolve some of the car’s body lines rather than having rigid character lines go along the entire length of the car.

So there you have my two cents, what does Oppo think?

What are the best/worst/most distinctive examples of “floating roof” design in the automotive landscape?

Nibby > Amoore100 09/21/2017 at 20:03

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Amoore100 > Nibby 09/21/2017 at 20:05

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Took me 30 seconds to get that. Well done, sir.

Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) > Amoore100 09/21/2017 at 20:09

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Honestly, I think that it’s a terrible design detail. The Maxima looks like somebody didn’t make the roof panel long enough, and the DS3 just looks clunky to me.

The closest things to this trend that I like are the very thin band that separates the contrasting roof on the C3 Cactus and the complete floating roof of modern Land Rovers.

CaptDale - is secretly British > Amoore100 09/21/2017 at 20:16

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I really do hate all of the floating roofs. I just don’t see the point and to me it is all very very ugly. But then I also hate chrome on new cars.

Look at this monstrosity. Why is the A pillar black? Why is the top trim on the window black and the belt line moulding chrome? Why are the handles and little chinger on the trunk chrome? Chrome needs to fuck off. Especially when it is just weird little trim bits. Honestly if they were black chrome it would look so much better. I think they use the chrome to make their car shiny so you don’t notice how crap the rest of it is. The roof should be nicely blended into the design of the vehicle’s shape. Not make it look like a convertible that is having the removable hardtop lowered onto it.

God damn it is so bad! Like if you are going to do it, then do it all the way yo the roof, no paint on the pillar, BUT THAT IS SHIT TOO!

I just can’t stand it not at all. Look at these for example

The G80 has not floating roof and the trim bits that would have been chrome are a very dark bronze color (at least on some models) and that is how it should be, subtle and classy. Honestly I have never wanted a Hyundai more. I walk by one everyday at work. But it is a pretty car with nor floating roof.

Or you could do it right and just have black and body color with a solid roof

Amoore100 > Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) 09/21/2017 at 20:22

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See, for me the DS3 works where the Maxima doesn’t because it shows intent—the wanted an effect and they went for it, and I appreciate that and can see what they were going for. The Maxima, I don’t even think they knew what they were going for; they just slapped on the corporate design cues according to a checklist until they could go home.

I feel you on the C3, that’s very similar to the new XC40 where it’s not really “floating” but rather a horizontal transition strip to the second color although the XC40's is simply a separate panel rather than a third color.

As for Rangies, well, they’ve been doing it forever-ish. It’s part of their heritage at this point.

Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) > Amoore100 09/21/2017 at 20:35

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Exactly, although I think that part of my issue with the DS3 is that the upper ‘flush’ portion betrays that the lower ‘proud’ body color section is only there for aesthetics and is doing nothing structurally. On the new Volvo I feel like a really narrow reveal would help that paint line feel a little less like... well... a paint line.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > Amoore100 09/21/2017 at 20:42

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The floating roof isn’t as new as you think. Fiat had one on the 131 Abarth & 131 Coupe from the 70's.

I like what Ford did with the Explorer, the A-Pillar is blacked out rather than the C/D. It gives the impression of a cantilevered canopy.

Milky > Amoore100 09/21/2017 at 20:43

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I really dislike the Armada’s cheap attempt to appear different. Its the cheaper one so you get a painted A-pillar?

But I like floating roofs, gives the car more direction when done right.

AestheticsInMotion > Amoore100 09/21/2017 at 20:46

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Call me when they can just throw in a wraparound rear glass pane and still have a structurally sound vehicle. The asymmetrical Nissan Cube would have been 1000x cooler if the “vanished” rear pillar was functional

Amoore100 > AestheticsInMotion 09/21/2017 at 20:59

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I was so disappointed to discover that the Pacifica didn’t actually have clamshell wraparound trunk windows—not exactly a floating roof, but it would have been wraparound glass all the same.

Amoore100 > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 09/21/2017 at 21:00

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Yes and no—back then, it was only a few automakers and not really a copycat trend; that and most did it with a little more panache and oversight and less random “slap it on because the boss says so”.

That said, the Explorer does do it well. In fact, I have always liked the styling of the contemporary Explorer because while slightly dull, it’s not overstyled like some others (AHEM Lexus RX).

Amoore100 > Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) 09/21/2017 at 21:07

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True, I see what you’re saying—it’s a fair bit of visual trickery. I have no idea what’s going on with the XC40 to be honest, the fact that the A-pillar is part of the two-tone scheme somewhat concerns me.

fintail > Amoore100 09/21/2017 at 21:28

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I’ll give my only nod to the Opel Adam, who I think is the modern day pioneer of the trend (and a generally pleasant little car):

The rest, no thanks, this fad can’t pass soon enough. IMO, the black plastic trim on old Rovers and Fiats isn’t the same as the shiny glass or maybe plastic on modern cars. I don’t see the old ones as faking it so much.

Svend > Amoore100 09/21/2017 at 23:02

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I like what they’ve done with the Seventh Gen Astra.

average user > Amoore100 09/21/2017 at 23:29

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There are a couple of good floating roofs. One is the mini (Clubman shown, but the general principle apply to the entire range of mini cars.)

The other example is definitely the Rangie, especially the OG Range Rover.

The worst example and i am surprised no one brought it up was the Jaaaag XJ and that hedious black plastic C-pillar. Why? The car looks so much better without it i think.

Amoore100 > Svend 09/22/2017 at 00:59

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Agreed on the hatch, on the wagon it looks contrived, if they had done something more like the Adam I think it would be less awkward...

Amoore100 > fintail 09/22/2017 at 01:01

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Agreed, I found it hard to articulate the difference between that black plastic trim and the modern glossy stuff but the former is definitely preferable—as for the Adam, it looks good, but less good on this...

Amoore100 > Milky 09/22/2017 at 01:48

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What’s hilariously ironic is that the supposedly utilitarian and more downmarket international Patrol has the same black A-pillars as the Infiniti so it’s clear that the Armada has color-matched ones just for the sake of being different.

Anyways, what is that thing with the glass floating roof? That’s incredible! As for the Murano, well, I like it, but it looks very, very French .

Amoore100 > CaptDale - is secretly British 09/22/2017 at 01:56

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Ok, ignore the Maxima; I think we all know at this point that Nissan’s styling department is a fucking mess and we all need to pretend it doesn’t exist before we become too angry. I feel like the Maxima’s overall shape was good and its proportions are handsome BUT every single thing besides that is godawful. All of Lexus’ current SUVs currently fall under that jurisdiction as well; the cars aren’t nearly as bad.

I don’t hate the Navigator because it’s just cribbing from the Range Rover who’s been doing it for decades:

Totally agree on the Hyundais—I do enjoy a bit of chrome brightwork around the windows (minimal, of course) and Volvo has achieved something similar with the S90 if we ignore the controversial “C” lights (which Jeremy Clarkson and I like, but that’s another story entirely) and managed to keep it simple and unfussy.

Eh, black trim works only on sports-oriented cars; on things like my old V50 it looks far too plain and ordinary—this is where some brightwork around the windows would improve things.

Amoore100 > average user 09/22/2017 at 02:00

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I think generally we can all agree that a floating roof is always ok if the pillar perpendicular to the main body line is blacked out; anything at an angle starts to get controversial but can occasionally be done right.

Aha! I was wondering if anyone would remember the XJ. I could never work it out as the A pillar was body colored, thus making it not a true “floating roof design. Add that onto the fact that the roof itself is also body color, and it just looks like a factory paint error, especially on darker colored cars.

On lighter color cars it works only with heavy tint to blend the pillar with the window—on second thought, it’s really aiming to be a frameless rear windscreen rather than a floating roof, but a rubbish design all the same.

Svend > Amoore100 09/22/2017 at 02:04

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Okay.

How about the Honda Civic estate?

Nissan Micra?

Hyundai i20

Skoda Yeti

Skoda Fabia Colour Edition

Soon to be released, Hyundai Kona.

RT > Amoore100 09/22/2017 at 05:22

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Alright, you can make a good floating roof if the entire pillar is blacked out, just about every car on sale does it to some extent these days - and it worked for this bunch.

But these chopped-C-pillar floating designs are ridiculous: the XJ, LC and DS3 are subtle enough to get away with it - but see this satirical article demonstrating how fussy it can look when applied to most designs:

https://driventowrite.com/2017/01/25/c-pillar-vw-golf-gti/

It’s the modern equivalent of 70s fake vinyl roofs, but without the novelty.

Yuck.

Milky > Amoore100 09/22/2017 at 09:14

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Thats probably why I like the Murano, I like damn near everything French. They take shots with car design, I like that.

fintail > Amoore100 09/22/2017 at 09:41

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I think this proves that so much of the design world is just clusters of group-thinking sycophants. One has an idea, and the rest run with it.

Funny thing about that edgy pseudo-aggressive toaster Odyssey and all of the slashes and creases meant to make an appliance turn exciting. I think we’ve reached or maybe passed the zenith of the fake-exciting movement. I notice the newest MB designs are all mostly soft, with a loud absence of creases or fake boldness. As MB was ahead of this curve around 2009, I wonder if it will start to wane, and these cars will look dated. I think we are in 1958 part II, and most of those cars looked old pretty fast.

For the wannabe floating pillar that grinds my gears most, probably the RX, both for the shamelessness of it, and for the vehicle itself, which so often has an irksome driver:

CaptDale - is secretly British > Amoore100 09/22/2017 at 10:44

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Floating roofs just need to stop in my book, unless they actually make a floating one.

As for the brightwork I guess a lot of cars would look more plain, but I just see it and it always looks awful. Maybe it is the addition of chrome handles and mirror caps. Most of the time it just looks tacky to me. I think I would be happy if the bright work was dark. I’m telling you black chrome would make all these cars look so much better.

BvdV - The Dutch Engineer > Amoore100 09/22/2017 at 11:58

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The DS3 is still a such a good design, it hasn’t aged a bit, despite being on sale for about 8 years.

Floating roofs only work when they are consistent, like the Mini, the Range Rover, or the DS3. Partial floating roofs like the Maxima, are just an unnecissary design feature, making the car look cluttered.

Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen > Amoore100 09/22/2017 at 12:23

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I think Jaguar totally screwed the pooch with the blacked out C pillars on the current XJ. It’s particularly bad on versions with chrome window trim, because they carry the trim up the blackout to ruin the effect On the other hand, if the trim is black it leaves a step in the beltline where it transitions to the rear window: sloppy as fuck either way.

I’ve seen a couple with color matched pillars, and it looks so much better: adds about a foot to the visual length of the car, and highlights the way the bottom of the taillights sweep up to meet the roofline, which makes the whole tail look more resolved. Shame about the boot shutline which pulls the eye away from that curve, but you can’t have everything.

Probenja > Amoore100 09/22/2017 at 12:25

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The fact that most manufacturers just now have to have a floating roof is really annoying, take the Swift, before it had a black A pillar which looks nice but the new one has a floating roof and it looks terrible:

Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen > Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen 09/22/2017 at 12:30

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Also, while I’m thinking about it: a curved transition to the beltline at the back corner of the rear quarterlight has been a Jag saloon styling cue since the Mk1: sort of a Housemaster Sweep . They’ve gone to the effort to drop a nod to it here, but unless you have chrome trim you lose half of it in the blackout.

John-Palazzo > Amoore100 09/22/2017 at 12:53

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While I’m not claiming to be any sort of expert, as an aspiring car designer I fell like I’ve discovered what makes a floating roof look good. Using the DS3 as an example, there are three main aspects to it:

1 - Any structure that you want to look like they’re gone should be on the inside. The DS3 actually looks like it has wrap around glass because it does , even if some of it is over a column. They just make the B and C pillars internal instead of painting them black.

2 - If you feel your design needs a different element and want to use a “pseudo column”, it should be from the bottom up , never the other way around. It gives the felling of rigidity and actual flotation, whereas from the top down it just looks like something is melting. Brutalist architecture used similar stuff back in the 60's to make it look like super heavy structures where floating

3- Be clear about what you want to do about the A pillar and doors. Even the DS3 suffers there, because it is super hard to disguise the pillars and the doors overlap the second color a bit, which I feel is something to avoid at all costs. But if the pillars are meant to be non existent (or wrap around glass), black out of the parts that would be glass, don’t just spray the entire thing black. And if it’s supposed to be an actual, visible pillar, make it a clearly, visible, actual pillar.

It honestly feels like car design is being run by marketing people lately, just trowing whatever it is they gather from focus groups into the first sketch lying around and call it a day. The floating roof itself is not inherently bad, it’s just really easy to mess up when you don’t know what you’re doing.

ranwhenparked > average user 09/22/2017 at 21:49

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Especially since they outlined the C-pillar window in chrome, which completely shatters the illusion of continuous, wraparound glass. The car would look so much cleaner and sleeker if they just left it body color.

ranwhenparked > Amoore100 09/22/2017 at 21:52

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I think it is getting very, very played out. When you have so many companies doing it, you inevitably will have some that just totally fail at doing it, and you get enough badly done examples out there and it ruins the effect for everyone.

Other than the floating roof, the Maxima looks decent from the back, but I think the front end is a bulbous mess the way the fenders kick up over the wheels, almost looks like the front clip came from a different car entirely and they mated it to the body as a field expedient repair.

Amoore100 > Probenja 09/23/2017 at 02:48

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Ugh, yeah—had they just colorized the rear pillar entirely it would have been perfectly acceptable and much more attractive.

Amoore100 > Svend 09/23/2017 at 02:53

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The Honda is so ugly that the floating roof is the least of its worries—more concerning is the fact that the beltline pinches upwards awkwardly just so that Honda could use the rear doors of the hatch.

The Micra is ok in that it’s like a mini-Murano; so wacky that it almost works.

The Hyundai, no. Just no. A tiny strip that’s tacked on afterwards, though it’s not as bad as the Maxima since it hasn’t been overstyled—just added, rather.

The Yeti is ok in my book all day any day. Shame it’s gone by the wayside. The Fabia’s not really a “floating roof”, just a nice two tone (if you choose nice colors, that is).

The Kona, eh, it’s got a bit of the DS3's “shark fin” but it’s neither as pronounced nor as distinctive. On a totally unrelated note, the DRL’s are very Jeep/Citroen—another up and coming design trend.

Amoore100 > Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen 09/23/2017 at 02:54

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Agreed—it kinda works in lighter colors because it just looks like a widened backlight, but for sure the colorized one you show is 100x better. Still, it’s not a true “floating roof” as the forward pillars are colorized so it’s a mystery to me what Jag was exactly trying to accomplish.

Amoore100 > ranwhenparked 09/23/2017 at 02:56

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I guess that’s my complaint—I rather like the front clip but it is totally disjointed compared to the rest of the car.

Although every design cue on it is so mismatched that I can’t even figure out what is and isn’t right anymore.

Amoore100 > BvdV - The Dutch Engineer 09/23/2017 at 02:58

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Agreed—it’s been that long!? DS cars age incredibly well, perhaps that’s the only way they live up to their name.

For sure, I think the “90 degree” blacked out pillar is the only effective one since it truly delineates the roof from the body rather than arbitrarily drawing a haphazard line between the two.

Amoore100 > RT 09/23/2017 at 03:00

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Excellent, that’s pretty much the conclusion I’ve reached from this discussion as well. A “90 degree” pillar that’s blacked out—excellent. Any other angle, nope.

Amoore100 > fintail 09/23/2017 at 03:02

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I have a feeling that these cars will date fast—that and I’m consistently amazed at how blatantly the Odyssey copies the Adam right down to the character lines in the door panels—proof that aesthetics are cribbed left and right.

I almost have an accident every time I see a new RX on the road—they are so violently hideous and the pillar compounds their syndrome.

Amoore100 > CaptDale - is secretly British 09/23/2017 at 03:03

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I agree, no chrome handles or mirrors, and definitely no chrome lower door trim. Just a ring around the windows, a bit on the grille, and that’s good. For me, all black trim on non sports-oriented models often looks like a bad plastidip, or at least that’s what I’ve come to associate it with nowadays.

ranwhenparked > Amoore100 09/23/2017 at 13:04

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Nissan design has become a total mess, which is a shame, because it used to be pretty good. The previous Maxima was an attractive car.

fintail > Amoore100 09/23/2017 at 13:54

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I think they are being dated already. Some really overstyled cars like the ~2011 Sonata already are getting that way, in my eyes - and even Hyundai toned it down for the refresh. I see a movement coming towards softer shapes and less pointless creasing. The highlines are usually style leaders, and MB is doing it today. I saw a line in a MB publication about the new E coupe not having so much adornment because a good design doesn’t need it. We can hope that line of thought catches on.

Good catch on the Adam cribbing,. The door panel lines on the Odyssey kind of trigger me, too. Why do they exist? Do the suburban bloggermoms and office workers who buy them really think they look sporty and exciting? Same for the RX, but I bet with that one, the buyer drinks the Kool-Aid, and really believes it is a dynamic and edgy vehicle.

Amoore100 > ranwhenparked 09/23/2017 at 14:01

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Yep, for sure. A bit obvious that it’s FWD, but tasteful design.

Amoore100 > fintail 01/06/2018 at 23:22

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That’s an excellent point. I never liked that generation Sonata from the outset though everyone commended its looks, then it grew on me for a few months before passing into dated. The E Coupe is average, IMO. The proportions are good—very, very good, but the copious amount of senseless bumper garnish hurts it from the fake vents to the garish exhaust and “diffuser”.

All in all less elegant that it was, but by no means a Prius IV.

After looking at the Odyssey a lot, I’m at least relieved that the senseless door etchings do follow body lines and resolve rather satisfyingly—unlike our old friend here:

Amoore100 > John-Palazzo 01/06/2018 at 23:50

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Somehow I missed this earlier—it’s good to hear from someone who’s potentially in the field rather than having us “enthusiasts” bitch from the sidelines all day!

I definitely understand the internalized pillar solution, though it can really only be applied on upright vehicles as I think it would be less successful on slantbacks a la Jag XJ.

Any examples for 2 ? Would the DS3 be top down or down up? I’m guessing down up, in which case what would a top down design look like? (other than a surmised travesty)

Indeed, I guess the theme would be to just make sure any element that’s attempted is fully carried out without any arbitrary caveats.

fintail > Amoore100 01/07/2018 at 00:04

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Don’t get me started about the overdone Mazdas. It was a theme for the whole brand, including the dopey smiling faces. I know some here love that kind of stuff, but I find it really dorky design.

The exhaust/diffuser area on modern MBs is definitely the design weak point. I have a facelift W212, and the business of the rear bumper area is out of place, just like on that otherwise fairly smooth E coupe. Funny, for the facelift 212 sedan, the “luxury” trim has no faux diffuser and an effectively invisible exhaust tip, but is much harder to find - the marketing types think everyone wants the pretense of sport.

Amoore100 > fintail 01/07/2018 at 00:32

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It was cute on some (the Miata and 3 hatch) but eh elsewhere.

As for the W212, excuse my blasphemy, but I quite like the square-light models :D

fintail > Amoore100 01/07/2018 at 00:41

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I don’t want a cute car :)

Then again, I had no desire to buy a Miata or 3, so it all worked out. I see Mazda abandoned the theme, too,

The 212 facelift is somewhat disjointed - the greenhouse works better with the angular cues of the earlier cars. I like the angular front too, although the LEDs on the newer one are the thing nowadays, and it has aged well. The earlier ones have some busy side detailing at the rear quarter panel though, some lines that were meant to be an homage to the Ponton, but it didn’t sit well with everyone. Maybe better that it was ironed out, people didn’t get it. The interior works though, it gives me a W124 vibe, and that’s not a bad thing.

W213 is quite nice inside, plain outside, but other than rear details, not overstyled.

Here’s a luxury trim facelift W212 - no overdone detailing at rear:

Amoore100 > fintail 01/07/2018 at 00:48

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Haha, I don’t mind it—many great motoring icons are “cute”! The original Miata, the Bugeye Sprite, the Dolomite, the Beat, etc.

Indeed, I have no question that the facelift is a better car and that the Luxury line is miles better, but the lines have always been a bit incohesive to me, especially at the front with the oversized badge. You’d probably kill me for saying this, but I think the W211 is the classiest post-2000 E Class.

Elegant and stately almost to being boring, but still looks like business, especially against the contemporary Bangle E60 series.

fintail > Amoore100 01/07/2018 at 01:04

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I have no desire to own any of those cars. Cute works, just not for me :)

The grille star is something that irks me a bit. Pre-facelift 212 didn’t have it, even the “sport” had a traditional hood ornament and grille. But with the facelift, we (as in NA-spec cars) get a coupe style grille on the “sport” sedan, which for a long time was wrong (even though a popular aftermarket conversion dating back to the 80s). You could still get a traditional grille and star, but only on a lux car, and these are probably under 10% of sales volume. 213 keeps up that trend.

211 has aged well, and I don’t mind the outside at all - the 4 light design was something MB should have ran with rather than abandoned after 15 years. For some reason, the dash design in those cars bugs me though, especially the center stack. Early run cars can also be really troublesome, not the pinnacle of MB quality.

John-Palazzo > Amoore100 01/08/2018 at 09:10

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The DS3 would be down up, since the “pseudo column” doesn’t protude from the roof to the body of the vehicle, but the other way around. A top down design would be something like the Lexus RX:

or the Nissan Maxima:

Altough, to be fair, these two are really bad designs any way you slice them, the “melting” is clearly visible.